Over the next few weeks Roger and Alan will be having a conversation about prayer. We shall be using this book as a basis for our discussion. You are welcome to join the conversation.
Alan, I think that we shall enjoy this book. The only downside is that it is very American in it's illustrations. There are perhaps too many from his family life if you don't have a family or they are grown up. I would want to rewrite some sections for an English reader, but I think we are both sufficiently aware of American culture to cope with this. A challenge to us will be to think of examples and applications from other walks of life.
There seem to be a host of upsides! It is easy to read. It has a very modern feel to it in the layout, illustrations and diagrams. For me the most attractive aspect as I have skimmed through is the many practical things he has to say about praying. I look forward to meditating on these and applying some to my own prayer life.
I am praying that God will use this book, and our exchanges, to make my life more into a praying life. What do you want out of this book?
I have read and commented on opening pages up to page 25.
I always read the 'boring bits' at the front as very often they contain some gems.
There seem to be a host of upsides! It is easy to read. It has a very modern feel to it in the layout, illustrations and diagrams. For me the most attractive aspect as I have skimmed through is the many practical things he has to say about praying. I look forward to meditating on these and applying some to my own prayer life.
I am praying that God will use this book, and our exchanges, to make my life more into a praying life. What do you want out of this book?
I have read and commented on opening pages up to page 25.
I always read the 'boring bits' at the front as very often they contain some gems.
[1] Do not miss the opening commendations
Dan B. Allender - "exposes our core doubts and desperation for God...Prayer a gift that connects us to the heart of the Father and as a path for transforming the world."
Tremper Loongman III - "...a heart that becomes a prayer factory"
Paul David Tripp - "...our struggle to actually live like we believe that our heavenly Father really does love us."
Ken Sande - "C H Spurgeon wrote, 'Prayer does not fit us for the greater works; prayer is the greater work."
As much as I long to be a better husband, father, son, neighbour, preacher, pastor and fellow elder my greatest need is my prayer life. I believe that this is also our greatest need as a Church. We spent a whole year in our Home Groups on the Lord's Prayer. They were good studies and beneficial times. They kept us praying and that is no small achievement, but I'm not sure they significantly deepened either my prayer life or that of the church.
Are we afraid of prayer? Do we fear disappointment (see Allender's comments above). Do we believe that we will find it boring? Why do people not want to come to a prayer meeting unless it includes a worthwhile bible study? Why do I find it easier to read a book (or do almost anything else) than to pray?
[2] Forward by David Powlison
Anything he writes is worth reading. The CCEF books are some of the best writing on Christian Counseling.
He says, "Prayer is meant to be a conversation where your life and your God meet." I find this helpful. We speak of a 'Prayer Meeting' thinking of it as meeting together for prayer or a meeting in which we pray. Perhaps it would be more helpful if we thought of it as a meeting with God in prayer.
His point about how the world can only teach us how to talk to ourselves is interesting. He says that Jesus teaches you how to stop talking to yourself. How to stop making prayer a production (a show, a performance). I sometimes find it a temptation to begin listening to my own prayers as a performance and in doing so lose concentration and cease praying.
Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones in his book on Spiritual Depression speaks about how the Psalmist talks to his soul, Why are you downcast O my soul - Psalm 42. He says that this is something that we need to learn to do, to talk to our souls, to know how to handle ourselves, as a preparation for talking to God. Maybe Pawlison overstates his point. Perhaps it would be better to say that Jesus teaches us how to talk to our own souls, and prepare for entering into the presence of God and talking to him.
[3] Introduction
"God taught me to pray through suffering" I do not believe that there is a Christian who does not suffer - it's just that we often chose to ignore our suffering. What suffering could be greater than having a loved one who does not believe? They are facing the greatest possible loss - their soul! Some suffering is not so easy to ignore (illness, prison, persecution and the like) - this is the form of suffering we usually talk about. I believe that not only do we learn to pray through suffering but it is also true that we learn to suffer through prayer. As we pray we stop ignoring the things in our lives that cause us to suffer, that break our hearts, because we have a greater confidence in our God and Father to whom we pray. We become more real.
Chapter One - WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO?
Does prayer make any difference? He sets out some of the reasons why we find it difficult to pray: Cynicism, glibness, the effects of the fall (badly damaged prayer antennae), self-preoccupation, our feeling we ought to be working (and we feel prayer is doing nothing!), 'The Kingdom of Noise', we can do life without God so prayer is unnecessary, how odd prayer is: we cannot see God and He does not respond audibly, we know the theory of prayer but not the practice, (we have a dysfunctional relationship with our heavenly Father!).
He's on to a winner in this chapter for which one of us does not find prayer hard!
I like the way he makes this point briefly for it would be easy to go for overkill and depress us all! Most of us feel guilty that we do not pray more, or better, but guilt does not turn us into people of prayer.
I sometimes find it easier to think of the prayers that have not been answered than those that have. Is this the devil? Properly, sometimes. Is this my flesh trying to persuade me not to pray? Properly, sometimes. Is this my doubts rising to the surface? Properly, sometimes?
It would be easy to just stop at the point that everyone finds prayer hard but I think it will be worthwhile if we asked ourselves, "Why do I find prayer difficult?" I'm not sure that this is a question that I can answer easily. My heart doesn't like answer such questions. They require a level of honest self examination and awareness that I need the Holy Spirit's help to do.
Chapter Two: WHERE WE ARE HEADED
What a helpful point he makes on page 20: "...many people struggle to learn how to pray because they are focusing on praying, not on God....prayer is not the center of this book. Getting to know a person, God, is the center." This picks up on the earlier point about 'performance'. If this is true of our own prayers then it must also be true about other people's prayer in a prayer meeting - we should not judge, or be influenced by the performance, but by the relationship the prayer expresses.
I'm thinking about the place of hope and trust in my prayers. I think I too often pray in 'hope' rather than in trust. My hope looks more like a worldly hope (maybe, with a bit of luck!!) rather than trusting God to give how and when he wills. I wish the book had an index so I could look up what he says regarding hope and trust.
He makes another good point on the interconnected praying life on page 21. Peter makes this point when he says: 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honour to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you {Some manuscripts since you are joint heirs} of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. These words come to my mind every time I fail as a husband and lead me to seek reconciliation.
"So don't hunt for a feeling in prayer." page 21. I find this tremendously liberating. How often we judge our prayers on the feelings we have as we, or someone else, prays. "You do not experience God; you get to know him."
I googled to see if there were any messages by Paul Miller on the internet. I found John Piper's Pastor's Conference 2011 was on prayer. Miller gives one paper. The others look good as well. I suggest we listen to them and encourage the deacons to do so as well. They are found at:
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/conference-messages/by-conference/2011-pastors-conference
He's on to a winner in this chapter for which one of us does not find prayer hard!
I like the way he makes this point briefly for it would be easy to go for overkill and depress us all! Most of us feel guilty that we do not pray more, or better, but guilt does not turn us into people of prayer.
I sometimes find it easier to think of the prayers that have not been answered than those that have. Is this the devil? Properly, sometimes. Is this my flesh trying to persuade me not to pray? Properly, sometimes. Is this my doubts rising to the surface? Properly, sometimes?
It would be easy to just stop at the point that everyone finds prayer hard but I think it will be worthwhile if we asked ourselves, "Why do I find prayer difficult?" I'm not sure that this is a question that I can answer easily. My heart doesn't like answer such questions. They require a level of honest self examination and awareness that I need the Holy Spirit's help to do.
Chapter Two: WHERE WE ARE HEADED
What a helpful point he makes on page 20: "...many people struggle to learn how to pray because they are focusing on praying, not on God....prayer is not the center of this book. Getting to know a person, God, is the center." This picks up on the earlier point about 'performance'. If this is true of our own prayers then it must also be true about other people's prayer in a prayer meeting - we should not judge, or be influenced by the performance, but by the relationship the prayer expresses.
I'm thinking about the place of hope and trust in my prayers. I think I too often pray in 'hope' rather than in trust. My hope looks more like a worldly hope (maybe, with a bit of luck!!) rather than trusting God to give how and when he wills. I wish the book had an index so I could look up what he says regarding hope and trust.
He makes another good point on the interconnected praying life on page 21. Peter makes this point when he says: 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honour to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you {Some manuscripts since you are joint heirs} of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. These words come to my mind every time I fail as a husband and lead me to seek reconciliation.
"So don't hunt for a feeling in prayer." page 21. I find this tremendously liberating. How often we judge our prayers on the feelings we have as we, or someone else, prays. "You do not experience God; you get to know him."
I googled to see if there were any messages by Paul Miller on the internet. I found John Piper's Pastor's Conference 2011 was on prayer. Miller gives one paper. The others look good as well. I suggest we listen to them and encourage the deacons to do so as well. They are found at:
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/conference-messages/by-conference/2011-pastors-conference
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