Tim Keller on 'Does Prayer Really Change Things'

Take a look.

Only 5 mins.

http://youtu.be/eHZ2jFLOvl8

Praying Like a Child

Ch 3 Become like a Little Child

Chapter 3 begins Part 1 ‘Learning to Pray like a Child’ of Paul Miller's book 'A Praying Life'. Much of the content is very similar to that given in the link you provided in the first post, Roger.

He gives an interesting and very helpful observation concerning the number of times Jesus either encourages his disciples to be like children or describes them as children. Paul Miller draws a lot on this image and one gets a fresh view of what prayer can be. In essence, as he says in the talk in the link, he applies the gospel to prayer. “Come overwhelmed with life. Come with your wondering mind. Come messy. Instead of being frozen by your self-preoccupation, talk with God about your worries.” Children don’t hold back, wondering what may be appropriate. Thinking about how I enjoy my young nephews and nieces sheds a whole new light, and they’re not even my children.

He refers to the time Nathanael met Jesus and sheds some light on the words of Christ which always left me wondering. After Nathanael had put down Nazareth as the last place one might expect a Messiah to come from he then meets Jesus who says “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!” Jesus ignores the slur to his family and background and “enjoys that Nathanael is real, without guile, a man who doesn’t pretend”. I find that a quite remarkable insight into how Jesus delights in people. How many times does he denounce the hypocrite? He chose someone like impulsive Peter as a disciple, a key disciple. He surrounds himself with uneducated fishermen, activists, and men whose sins are open to all, childlike men, Paul Miller suggests, and then tells them to ask for anything they want in his name.

I’ve often felt we’re too concerned about being ‘proper’. I get annoyed with myself at how easily I can slip into a solemn earnest drone when leading prayer in public, from a felt need to confirm to some caricature of tradition or something, who knows? Do you think we really grasp the depths of the prayers in the Psalms and prophets, their pleadings and questions? I wonder what my gut reaction would have been watching Eli and Hannah. I may not have condoned Eli’s rebuke but I suspect I’d have regarded Hannah’s behaviour as unfamiliar. Perhaps I need to recognise my helplessness more.

Ch 4 Learn to talk with your Father

This expands on the theme of asking like a child. “Don’t be embarrassed by how needy your heart is.” He notes that our childlike faith dies a thousand little deaths through disappointments and growing cynicism. I’ll be interested in how he approaches the unanswered prayer later on in the book.

One of the sections is titled “Learning to Play Again” and I confess I’m not entirely certain if ‘play’ is a helpful word. But he makes an interesting observation. Don’t grow anxious with a wondering mind in prayer, go with it. I’m going to work with that. I’ll keep my prayer list but I’ll aim to be less concerned with how I go from one item to the next.

The section that follows is titled “Learn to Babble Again”. I think I know what he means, don’t worry about getting the words exactly right just pray, but maybe the choice of the word ‘babble’ is unfortunate given the immediate verse that came to my mind was Matthew 6:7 “and when you pray, do not keep on babbling like the pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.” That’s the NIV which is still very much in my memory. The ESV has instead “do not heap up empty phrases”. I don’t think Paul Miller’s advice is contrary to this verse. Indeed praying like a child is perhaps the very opposite of repeating standard formulas which I believe Matt 6:7 is about.

I’ve read Ch5. The chapters are very short, which I always find helpful and usually encourages me to read on. But it does take time to think over and write about so I’ll leave it there.

I’ll be interested, Roger, in what you think of how far he pushes the picture of a child for the approach to prayer. I find it is challenging a part of my thinking, but I suspect it’s a part of my thinking that needs to be confronted, asked “how did you get in here?” and perhaps politely shown the door.

Where we are Headed

Here, I'm just going to cover the ground up to chapters 1 and 2 of Paul E Millers book "A Prayer Life", by way of response to the points Roger's already made in the earlier post. I'll launch into the next chapters in a following post, as soon as I've read them.

Reading the first few pages leaves me somewhat excited to what may follow. I'm finding it clear, to the point and honest. I don't find the illustrations especially American as yet. I go camping, wear contact lenses and eat lasagne. Fine so far. And maybe I watch too many movies. So I've had no problems relating to the illustrations which are generally helpful. That includes those concerning family. Whilst I have no children I have a range of suitable nieces and nephews to hang the ideas off.

What do I want out of this book? I've been thinking about prayer a lot recently, especially corporate prayer but also how these times are helped or hindered by our individual prayer lives. I'd like to spend some time examining how I prioritise and approach prayer. I can look back on times when prayer has been especially fervent, or comforting, or faith-filled. Why are these times so hard to sustain? I'm looking forward to discussing the book with Roger because it will become an opportunity to dig more deeply than I would ordinarily do so when reading. I'm aiming to consolidate the gains.

The Forward (David Powilson)

I shall need to read more from David Powilson.

"You've heard the contorted syntax, formulaic phrases, meaningless repetition, vague non-requests, pious tones of voice, and air of confusion."

Indeed I have. I've heard them from my own mouth. Every clause had me nodding. I highlighted it in red. I don't have a scheme. It's just I haven't used red yet.

Ch 1 What Good Does it Do?

His analysis is very helpful. "We keep our doubts hidden even from ourselves", and so the book already involves some soul searching which has been appropriate and incisive. I was trying to grasp how he could so clearly state some uncomfortable truths without leaving me feeling battered, but I think you have it right highlighting the brevity.

"How odd prayer is": I recall when I first began to actually vocalise my personal prayers at home alone. It was most strange but quite revolutionary. There I was, all alone at home, speaking out loud as if someone else was there. And of course someone else was there. I recommend it to everyone. It clarifies the reality of it. It also helps you to distinguish a preparatory thought from the actual words you offer.

I've been thinking about your comments on the recollection of answered prayer and on asking why we find prayer difficult. The atmosphere of the book has already got me thinking seriously about this.

I do recall answered prayers. I confess some of these may in fact leave me unconsciously censoring my prayers. Am I really ready for the disruption the answer to this may bring? Do I have the faith to continue what this prayer starts? He just may answer it. Oooo subtle. Am I perhaps too comfortable with the slightly disappointing but familiar present to step into an exciting if challenging future? And if I pray without the faith to continue perhaps I'm the wind tossed wave, and I can't expect anything. Did Peter ever go fishing after Pentecost? I think Peter liked fishing.

So far there's nothing about being too busy to pray or lacking energy or information. Good. These are the reasons many of us may quote for lack of prayer but I suspect they are all superficial excuses and in honesty used to hide the real reasons.

The danger for me will be to search too introspectively and end up digging though to the other side to no apparent value. I may need some help to hoist me back to reality occasionally.

Ch 2 Where we are Headed

I highlighted that sentence too: "You don't experience God, you get to know Him." We tend to focus on prayer instead of God. Perfect.

This is the second reason why I'm excited by this book.

Your distinction between trust and 'hope' in prayer was a helpful spur to some reflection. Asking in faith or wishing on a star. I'm still chin scratching on that and may return to it later.

I agreed with his, perhaps provocative, assessment that many have become "functional deists" while still believing. At least it made his point very very clearly. We throw up petitions asking God to come down, but this is my Father's world, change is possible.

"Honest, realistic, mature, wise, deep. Warmly recommended." J I Packer

I bought it on that recommendation. He's not wrong so far.

A Conversation on 'A Praying Life'

Over the next few weeks Roger and Alan will be having a conversation about prayer. We shall be using this book as a basis for our discussion. You are welcome to join the conversation.

Alan, I think that we shall enjoy this book. The only downside is that it is very American in it's illustrations.  There are perhaps too many from his family life if you don't have a family or they are grown up. I would want to rewrite some sections for an English reader, but I think we are both sufficiently aware of American culture to cope with this. A challenge to us will be to think of examples and applications from other walks of life.

There seem to be a host of upsides! It is easy to read. It has a very modern feel to it in the layout, illustrations and diagrams. For me the most attractive aspect as I have skimmed through is the many practical things he has to say about praying. I look forward to meditating on these and applying some to my own prayer life.

I am praying that God will use this book, and our exchanges, to make my life more into a praying life. What do you want out of this book?

I have read and commented on opening pages up to page 25.

I always read the 'boring bits' at the front as very often they contain some gems.

[1] Do not miss the opening commendations

Dan B. Allender - "exposes our core doubts and desperation for God...Prayer a gift that connects us to the heart of the Father and as a path for transforming the world."

Tremper Loongman III - "...a heart that becomes a prayer factory"

Paul David Tripp - "...our struggle to actually live like we believe that our heavenly Father really does love us."

Ken Sande - "C H Spurgeon wrote, 'Prayer does not fit us for the greater works; prayer is the greater work."

As much as I long to be a better husband, father, son, neighbour, preacher, pastor and fellow elder my greatest need is my prayer life. I believe that this is also our greatest need as a Church. We spent a whole year in our Home Groups on the Lord's Prayer. They were good studies and beneficial times. They kept us praying and that is no small achievement, but I'm not sure they significantly deepened either my prayer life or that of the church.

Are we afraid of prayer? Do we fear disappointment (see Allender's comments above). Do we believe that we will find it boring? Why do people not want to come to a prayer meeting unless it includes a worthwhile bible study? Why do I find it easier to read a book (or do almost anything else) than to pray?

[2] Forward by David Powlison

Anything he writes is worth reading. The CCEF books are some of the best writing on Christian Counseling.

He says, "Prayer is meant to be a conversation where your life and your God meet." I find this helpful. We speak of a 'Prayer Meeting' thinking of it as meeting together for prayer or a meeting in which we pray. Perhaps it would be more helpful if we thought of it as a meeting with God in prayer.

His point about how the world can only teach us how to talk to ourselves is interesting. He says that Jesus teaches you how to stop talking to yourself. How to stop making prayer a production (a show, a performance). I sometimes find it a temptation to begin listening to my own prayers as a performance and in doing so lose concentration and cease praying.

Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones in his book on Spiritual Depression speaks about how the Psalmist talks to his soul, Why are you downcast O my soul - Psalm 42. He says that this is something that we need to learn to do, to talk to our souls, to know how to handle ourselves, as a preparation for talking to God. Maybe Pawlison overstates his point. Perhaps it would be better to say that Jesus teaches us how to talk to our own souls, and prepare for entering into the presence of God and talking to him.

[3] Introduction

"God taught me to pray through suffering" I do not believe that there is a Christian who does not suffer - it's just that we often chose to ignore our suffering. What suffering could be greater than having a loved one who does not believe? They are facing the greatest possible loss - their soul! Some suffering is not so easy to ignore (illness, prison, persecution and the like) - this is the form of suffering we usually talk about. I believe that not only do we learn to pray through suffering but it is also true that we learn to suffer through prayer. As we pray we stop ignoring the things in our lives that cause us to suffer, that break our hearts, because we have a greater confidence in our God and Father to whom we pray. We become more real.

Chapter One - WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO?

Does prayer make any difference? He sets out some of the reasons why we find it difficult to pray: Cynicism, glibness, the effects of the fall (badly damaged prayer antennae), self-preoccupation, our feeling we ought to be working (and we feel prayer is doing nothing!), 'The Kingdom of Noise', we can do life without God so prayer is unnecessary, how odd prayer is: we cannot see God and He does not respond audibly, we know the theory of prayer but not the practice, (we have a dysfunctional relationship with our heavenly Father!).

He's on to a winner in this chapter for which one of us does not find prayer hard!

I like the way he makes this point briefly for it would be easy to go for overkill and depress us all! Most of us feel guilty that we do not pray more, or better, but guilt does not turn us into people of prayer.

I sometimes find it easier to think of the prayers that have not been answered than those that have. Is this the devil? Properly, sometimes. Is this my flesh trying to persuade me not to pray? Properly, sometimes. Is this my doubts rising to the surface? Properly, sometimes?

It would be easy to just stop at the point that everyone finds prayer hard but I think it will be worthwhile if we asked ourselves, "Why do I find prayer difficult?" I'm not sure that this is a question that I can answer easily. My heart doesn't like answer such questions. They require a level of honest self examination and awareness that I need the Holy Spirit's help to do.


Chapter Two: WHERE WE ARE HEADED


What a helpful point he makes on page 20: "...many people struggle to learn how to pray because they are focusing on praying, not on God....prayer is not the center of this book. Getting to know a person, God, is the center." This picks up on the earlier point about 'performance'. If this is true of our own prayers then it must also be true about other people's prayer in a prayer meeting - we should not judge, or be influenced by the performance, but by the relationship the prayer expresses.

I'm thinking about the place of hope and trust in my prayers. I think I too often pray in 'hope' rather than in trust. My hope looks more like a worldly hope (maybe, with a bit of luck!!) rather than trusting God to give how and when he wills. I wish the book had an index so I could look up what he says regarding hope and trust.

He makes another good point on the interconnected praying life on page 21. Peter makes this point when he says: 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honour to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you {Some manuscripts since you are joint heirs} of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. These words come to my mind every time I fail as a husband and lead me to seek reconciliation.

"So don't hunt for a feeling in prayer." page 21. I find this tremendously liberating. How often we judge our prayers on the feelings we have as we, or someone else, prays. "You do not experience God; you get to know him." 


I googled to see if there were any messages by Paul Miller on the internet. I found John Piper's Pastor's Conference 2011 was on prayer. Miller gives one paper. The others look good as well. I suggest we listen to them and encourage the deacons to do so as well. They are found at:
http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/conference-messages/by-conference/2011-pastors-conference

So Here You Are!

So here you are alive on planet earth! What are you doing here? Was it your idea to live? Did you choose the day you were born? Did you decide what abilities you would have? No of course not. 

Aren't we just here because of a combination of an accident followed by generations of the survival of the fittest? 

That is a pretty bleak outlook. What's the point? None! 

The Bible says there is a very real point to life because: "It is he (God) who made us". He did not have to create you but he freely chose to do so. He made you because he wanted to. You matter to him.

Like it or not: God matters to you! Why else are you reading this? You cannot totally escape him. "He has set eternity in the hearts of men". That is why you feel life must have a purpose and that life must go on beyond death. God made you to know and feel this. That is why at times it can be such hard work trying to ignore 'eternity'. 

The God who made you like this did so in order that you will reach out for him. He is not far away.

 

GOD ARE YOU THERE?

Blackwells Bookshop at the top of Park Street Bristol have been giving a FREE GIFT for Darwin's 200 birthday: 'Darwin A Graphic Biography' by Simon Gurr and Eugene Byrne. 

They picture Darwin as an old man saying: "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of God. I think that agnostic would be the more correct description of my state of mind." 

The next picture is of Thomas Huxley, sometimes described as Darwin's bulldog for the fierce defense he made of 'evolution', saying: "Nobody can prove God exists, and nor can anyone prove he does not exist." 

There really is no escaping the question: Does God exist? Even those who want to deny his existence, or at least sit on the fence, find themselves thinking about God. Some atheists never seem to stop talking about him!

The Bible begins by proclaiming God: "In the beginning God..." The first thing we learn about God is that He is there. He has always been and always will be. Later on we are told that he is not far from each one of us. 

Next we learn that God is a God who creates. We see that he has great wisdom, incredible power, a sense of beauty, and a delight to share life with those to whom he gives life. 

Not a convincing argument for the existence of God? 

It is not meant to be. God invites us, not to argue, but to know him. How do you get to know someone? You listen to them. 

I used to lie on my bed looking up and wonder if God was there and, if so was he looking down on me.  Then I asked him. No loud voice boomed down, nor did I hear any voice in my head. Shortly afterwards I begun to read the Bible and, though at the time I did not know it, God was answering my question.  

Why not ask him for yourself? If you do not have a Bible you can download one from the link or read it online and then read the first two opening chapters.

A blog for you

Hello, 

Thanks for looking me up! This blog is for those who want to know more about the Christian faith. 

For the past sixteen years I have been Pastor of Philip Street Chapel and have really enjoyed visiting homes in South Bristol talking with many people. Maybe one day we will meet and be able to talk face to face.

This blog is another means of conversation. I shall aim to add one piece each week. I hope that you will leave your comments or please email me with any questions you would like me to answer.